Q and A with Dr Michael Spence
7 July 2008
Did you have any reservations about coming back to Sydney? No I didn't. The University is a great institution and it's a wonderful city - and my children said they would leave home if I didn't let my name go forward for the job! How is the University perceived internationally?There is no doubt that Sydney is seen internationally as a very high quality research university. Ironically, if I have encountered uncertainty about Sydney's international standing, it has been here within the University rather than overseas. But there is an enormous amount to be proud about here, and to trumpet to the rest of the world. How intimidating was the interview process?Well, I had three telephone interviews from Oxford, a formal interview with the Chancellor, two interviews with different groups from the selection committee, a presentation and interview with the whole committee, and another telephone interview when I had returned to Oxford. They took references from the Vice-Chancellor at Oxford, from at least three other vice-chancellors of UK universities, from almost all of the pro-vice chancellors at Oxford, from the administrator in my office, and from about six of the heads of faculties who worked in my division. I understand that they talked to other people as well. It was quite a process, and if they have made a mistake, they have at least made it thoughtfully! I have to say, though, that I enjoyed the whole thing. It was a very interesting group of people to meet. What has changed at Sydney University since you were a student here?The university sector has changed beyond recognition, and it's very hard to distinguish what has changed at Sydney in particular. I think the sector is now full of people whom I would call the 'elect remnant'. Forty years ago it didn't make much difference whether you were a lawyer, a doctor or an academic. But in a resource-constrained environment, where life for academics is sometimes quite tough, you do it because you are passionate about it. I think that makes the university a more exciting place to work in than it has ever been before, because people have a passion and a commitment to the university and have made sacrificial decisions to work here. It's obviously a much bigger university now than when you were a student. Can we just keep growing and growing?I think at the moment we have a choice. We either have to radically restructure ourselves and recognise that the universities that do really well on the league tables are working from a wholly different model of a research university and from a wholly different resource base; or, what I would rather do, we have to affirm our dual mission as a both a fine research university and a large comprehensive state education provider and attempt to perform that more challenging dual role as well as we can. As to size, I don't want to halve the size of the place as it has been suggested that I do, but I think that growth for the sake of growth is not desirable. Every faculty I go to says that the buildings are groaning and that academic staff are teaching more hours than God gives; well, you can cut the number of students or you can increase the number of buildings and the number of academics. The trick with doing the latter is making sure that you do all things well when both physical infrastructure and clever people are scarce resources. The trick with doing the former is making sure that the books still balance. What will be on the top of your agenda at your first meeting the government?I will want to talk about the funding of research and about the role of universities in innovation. I think we need to make it clear that having research funded by cross subsidies from the funding of teaching is not smart. People have a tendency to think of Australia as a very clever nation, but they talk about Victa mowers built in garages and not about the important role of universities in the innovation process. I also think that the importance of what is sometimes called 'lone scholar' research, or 'pen and paper' research — that is research in both the natural sciences, humanities and social sciences that is never going to attract large research grants — is inadequately understood. I want to encourage the government to invest in research across the range of the disciplines and to think about the variety of ways in which it should fund university research, particularly excellent research. But the government will also want to ask me about social inclusion and I think there are real issues to be faced at Sydney around that question. I'm not sure that the University reflects the diversity of the city, and I think that's a problem. What are your thoughts on our international policy?In percentage terms we have more international students at undergraduate level than at postgraduate level, and it is not immediately intuitive that that is the right balance. What we need to do is to recruit more high quality international graduates and that's going to be increasingly difficult as the major universities around the world invest a lot of money in international postgraduate recruitment and training - particularly in North America where postgraduate students and postdoctoral researchers are seen not so much as cash cows but as the university of the future in which we have to invest. The range of options for international students is growing all the time and the competition is stronger and stronger. I want to make sure we bring the most able students to Sydney and we need to put a lot of work into that. What improvements would you like to see in the student experience at Sydney?Our students tell us that in some parts of the University there are issues to do with the quality of the student learning experience and addressing that must be a priority. But I also want to think about how you create campus life for students who are commuters and who operate in an environment where they are also holding down paid jobs and where the time they have to give to the broader aspects of student life isn't as great as it once was. We need to think about how to make a commuter university a real intellectual environment for people. We also just don't have enough on-site accommodation or proximate accommodation for students, particularly international students, and that has to be a strategic challenge facing the University. What can academics expect under your leadership?I will count my time at Sydney a success if the University is performing well on all the standard metrics, but also if it is a place over which working academics feel a sense of ownership and where they can participate in decisions about the strategic direction the University is taking. Harnessing the creativity of academic staff in strategic agenda setting for the University is crucial. The University should be a kind of federation of self-governing academic communities. It would be foolish for me, or for any other university apparatchik, to attempt to dictate the agenda for individual faculties and schools. Faculties and schools should set their own strategic agenda. And to do that, they need to understand clearly what resources they earn, where they come from, and to have some control over how they are spent. But there remains a crucial role for the central university. First, it should act as a 'critical friend', a kind of financial and academic auditor. It should ask faculties or schools why they are about to send us broke, and also ask people why they are not publishing or not publishing in high quality outlets. Second, it should work to co-ordinate the whole so that we operate together as a single institution, so that both in our teaching and research the whole is more than the sum of the parts. Of course, in performing that second function the central university needs significant input from the core academic communities themselves. My biggest immediate agenda item is finding a forum for the faculties to participate in strategic planning for the wider university. I am working with the deans, the deputy vice-chancellors and the Chair of the Academic Board on formalising the role of the senior executive group, and in particular on bringing the deans into that group so that we can involve them in more institution-wide planning. I suppose that the model that I am proposing is neither a top-down, nor a bottom-up model of management, but rather one that is dialogic - if that doesn't sound completely naff! Are you planning to teach?I'd like to - I taught in my last job when my diary was full from 8 o'clock in the morning until late at night. But I also want to keep up my research and it may be a bit hubristic to try and fit all that in, as well as being a father to my five children and a partner to my wife. What's your style of leadership? On your first day in the office will you be in a suit or a sports jacket?I wear a suit or shorts - they're my sartorial choices. At your first function a waiter approaches you with a tray of beer, wine and orange juice. What do you choose?Orange juice. I like to keep my wits about me. I spent a lot of my time in my last job rattling the can for the university and I just think it's good to be pretty sharp at social functions. As one of the perks of your new job you get offered tickets for the football and tickets for the theatre on the same night. Which do you go to? If I were offered tickets I would want to make sure that it was in a context in which it was proper to receive them! But I would rather go to the theatre. Much has been made of your faith. Are you going to continue as a preacher here?I have no plans. I never use the Rev Dr title at work. I think everybody has a worldview and that it inevitably influences your actions and the way you interpret things. I think the question is how open you are to the worldviews of others, and how able you are to work with people who have contrasting or conflicting worldviews. That's a challenge for everybody, including people who have some kind of recognised faith, and I don't think you can work successfully in a university environment unless you can do that. On the other hand, I also hope that the university is a community in which people can have commitments to ideas, even strong commitments. That kind of passion is surely what makes for a stimulating intellectual environment.
Contact: Andrew Potter
Phone: 02 9351 4514